5077

Decoy:
Food is good. There I said it, too.
(Fri Dec 5, 2003 - 7:34:03 pm)

Sleepy:
So kind. We miss you too. One day, when we are very, very old, we will be reunited in the great lounge in the sky.
(Fri Dec 5, 2003 - 7:34:21 pm)

Sleepy:
We will drink a lot and eat a lot and it will be great.
(Fri Dec 5, 2003 - 7:34:52 pm)

Decoy:
I like to think we won't wait that long. But there you go. And its dinner time.
(Fri Dec 5, 2003 - 7:35:08 pm)

Decoy:
It will be great, make no mistake. Decoy's lounge in the sky.
(Fri Dec 5, 2003 - 7:35:48 pm)

Sleepy:
Yes. We will post together again soon in the most excellent of health and vitality. Or something. Have a lovely dinner. I'm very hungry myself.
(Fri Dec 5, 2003 - 7:36:33 pm)

Decoy:
I'll take my leave ... be good and take care. Save me some cheese, if you can. Later.
(Fri Dec 5, 2003 - 7:37:18 pm)

Sleepy:
Take care. Later.
(Fri Dec 5, 2003 - 7:37:34 pm)

Heruka:
my insecurities? are all english this fucking retarded? Americans aren't the ones pouting like children when Europe shows it's indifference to us and our opinions. of course, europe doesn't do such a thing, as they follow our every step. pathetic.
(Fri Dec 5, 2003 - 7:47:49 pm)

:
?????????
(Fri Dec 5, 2003 - 7:50:24 pm)

Heruka:
as a general rule, of all the people I've met, I like europeans the least. that's all. no offense. even now, none of you have anything interesting or progressive to say. I've yet to read many european ideals on the state of the world that was anything more than a simple bashing of the US. boring.
(Fri Dec 5, 2003 - 8:02:10 pm)

:
steel band in the distance, and their music floats across the bay
while American women in mu-mus talk about all the things they did today.

(Fri Dec 5, 2003 - 8:46:31 pm)

:
spinning around in circles, living it day to day
and still 24 hours maybe 60 good years its really not that long a stay

(Fri Dec 5, 2003 - 8:56:23 pm)

:
Is that a sick bag for the dog on the arm of the chair?
(Fri Dec 5, 2003 - 9:06:30 pm)

The Europeans:
What interesting and progressive postings.
(Sat Dec 6, 2003 - 4:42:20 am)

Queenie:
yay, we sold our first tickets! only 498 to go before we break even. woooooooo.
(Sat Dec 6, 2003 - 5:29:50 am)

Decoy:
What the hell was I talking about the cheese before? Anyway, dinner was steak. And it was good.
(Sat Dec 6, 2003 - 7:12:22 am)

The Americans:
You are free to believe what we want.
(Sat Dec 6, 2003 - 7:13:17 am)

All I want for Christmas:

(Sat Dec 6, 2003 - 7:25:03 am)

He thinks for a Nation:

(Sat Dec 6, 2003 - 7:49:37 am)

:
we need trees not Bush
(Sat Dec 6, 2003 - 8:35:27 am)

Decoy:
Busy day planned.
(Sat Dec 6, 2003 - 8:58:40 am)

Myk Murphy:
i have snow to shovel, but it was only a few inches. not too bad.

while i believe heruka's position is a bit overstated, it does concern me how hyperbolic the rhetoric turns when the topic is american power. the US is accused of everything under the sun. the knee-jerk anti-US journalists alternate between "the US has done too much" and "the US hasn't done enough". also, the fixation on dubya has become rather tired. yes, we know he exhibits all the traits of the type of american you love to hate, but a little cooperation would be helpful.

"you are free to believe what we want"? not quite. we just remember a day when many nations joined us to fight tyranny. has the US become the only western nation that hasn't sunken into the morass of moral relativism? Time magazine referred to his recent london speech:

Fair-minded Europeans who read Bush's speech in London last week will surely adjust their image of him. I was particularly struck by this passage: "Because European countries now resolve differences through negotiation and consensus, there's sometimes an assumption that the entire world functions in the same way.

But let us never forget ... beyond Europe's borders, in a world where oppression and violence are very real, liberation is still a moral goal, and freedom and security still need defenders." Every word of that is true. If Europeans continue to hate the man who said them, they diminish not him, but themselves.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/11/24/timep.europe.tm/index.html ...for the article referenced.
(Sat Dec 6, 2003 - 11:03:39 am)

Detlef Sping:
It's what is really going on that scares me. Thankfully, Cretien is now toast and Paul Martin is a bit more of a thinker. We'll see. Drop the big one now.
(Sat Dec 6, 2003 - 2:40:09 pm)

Heruka:
hmm, Myk for the most part agrees with me. I find we agree on many issues. most even. even if the extent of our agreements differs greatly.

(Sat Dec 6, 2003 - 3:28:22 pm)

Ohrwurm:
I think the US could if it wanted to, destroy any country on the planet. Possibly by accident meaning to help but...........just joking. The fact that it hasn't seems to be a point of pride to a lot of Americans I have spoken to here in England. It is a bit like me saying that if I met you in a bar Heruka, the fact that I could have but haven't ripped your head off and puked down your neck makes me a good person. It all sounds a bit familiar, the English did the same for centuries you know.

Remember that the World also see's America as a country who has systematically invaded country after country for at least the last 50 years (30+ countries I think) mostly, but not always, for it's own political and economic interests, and not to fight tyranny.

Two years ago the media in the UK were absolutely behind the US. Every article was about the terrible tragedy that had struck our allies and even on the street average people were engaged in an outpouring of grief and positive thoughts towards our cousins across the pond. What happened to all that concern? It dried very quickly.

Remember when you criticise us here in England Heruka you are in fact criticising one of the few real allies the US has left. There are British forces out there right now for the freedom of this planet too you know.

Please do not read this as Anti-US retoric. Although I was against the War in Iraq I was also against Saddam (as most of my countrymen are). It was just the means of his removal and the real reasons behind it that I abhored.

Also Bush will get targeted until he is out, unfortunately he perfectly matches the (obviously wrong) stereotypical American in the eyes of the planet. We used to get irish jokes here, the way i think polish jokes were popular in the US; unfortunately they have been replaced by American jokes here.

I think i should drop the politics here from now though. I don't really like discussing politics a lot. Sorry for any offence if I caused any.
(Sat Dec 6, 2003 - 3:53:41 pm)

Decoy:
I love a good political balance, though. I mean in the discussion here. Oh, just so you know, Myk is an "insider." Wink wink.
(Sat Dec 6, 2003 - 4:46:57 pm)

Myk Murphy:
honestly, the incessant branding of the US as a force for destruction is counterproductive at best and insulting at worst. among the youth in western countries, this behavior is more Fashion than thoughtful Ideology, and so i view it without offense. anti-US attitude is as common as a nosering, and neither affects us very much. so, we'll leave it as counterproductive.

the old standard argument we've endured as of late: the US is constructing some empire to dominate the world. this flies in the face of the facts. more factually, the US is working with other western or westernized nations (perhaps your country is on this list?) to globalize economics. organizations like the WTO is a good example of this cooperation, in which the parties join the club but have to abide by the arbitration rules. the big, bad US has backed off on steel tariffs this week, mostly due to WTO pressure. you win some, you lose some, but if i'm not mistaken, no one was killed over this trade spat. it gets more interesting when the US puts the screws to europe over its gigantic farm subsidies, but (stated in his most patronizing american tone) it's probably for your own good.

a few words about post-9/11 sympathy. first of all, all americans thank the world that grieved with them. there is no question of that. but here's the funny part... instead of licking our wounds, shrugging and saying "gosh, some folks in the world just don't like us...", we immediately drew up a battle plan (ok, i'm fibbing... we already had the battle plan) to kill the terrorist non-governmental organizations or the states that harbored them. we're sorry if this shocked the sensibilities of our friends, but honestly, the US hasn't reached the "sulking passive victim" status of some western allies. we don't fear taking action. we still don't. here's the part that should really concern you: we would have taken this level action of action, give or take a carpet bombing, even if the president was democrat. this isn't bravado; this is fact.
(Sat Dec 6, 2003 - 5:10:01 pm)

Decoy:
I'm not going to pretend to know anything. But don't we need to get out internal economics under control before we can go making promises? Or is the internation marketplace the answer to our domestic woes?
(Sat Dec 6, 2003 - 5:14:41 pm)

Decoy:
Errata: "..OUR internal economics" "Or is the INTERNATIONAL..."
(Sat Dec 6, 2003 - 5:15:36 pm)

Decoy:
It all those contrarians out there, and the zealots, and the hey hey hey.
(Sat Dec 6, 2003 - 5:17:18 pm)

Myk Murphy:
a good point. the thing is that, generally, open markets appear to create more wealth and prosperity than closed markets. in that sense, i should point out, our "empire" diverges widely from all other preceding models: we don't enforce a US "hub and spoke" like the UK, Japan, etc did in the past.

this wealth and prosperity is not just for the "haves" but also "have nots". at the risk of being pelted by rocks from angry WTO protesters dressed as sea turtles, the statistics have indicated that the poor areas can industrialize, birth rates can level off, etc. some folks think that this means that a "way of life" is destroyed, but unless you intend to place poor rural people under glass domes to seal them off from the world, having them learn a new trade or two is a good thing. i'd suggest to the sea turtle fellow to protest the WTO to improve working conditions and end child labor abuses, rather than protest the WTO's existence. do something useful, because all parties know that global trade has its dark spots.

back to decoy's question: our internal economics will fluctuate, but i'll take our fiscal health over any other western nation's right now. we allow for business creation without excessive barriers, and small business drives the country.
(Sat Dec 6, 2003 - 5:24:45 pm)

Myk Murphy:
one other thing on the US fixing its problems: the US Fed still gives lip service to the "strong dollar" policy, but it's no longer policy. it's become clear that the US is keeping the dollar weak to help exports. our domestic manufacturing base is happy, the europeans groan (their exports were pricey enough at 1:1 parity, but at $1.20 a euro, it's nasty), and we align with a weak asia for awhile. we'll see how long this arrangement lasts.
(Sat Dec 6, 2003 - 5:35:29 pm)