2630

Heruka:
again, you're dwelling on the outcome as happens to the bomber, not to the victims. killing Israels is the prime objective, not killing themselves.
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:26:41 pm)

Queenie:
Eh. Useless to debate it, as we'll never know what's going through those guys' heads.
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:31:41 pm)

Decoy:
Its the martyrdom thing. They don't think like you, don't try to understand them in your terms, you can't. THe palestinians are at least a psuedo sovereignty, the taliban was a terrorist group; like a crime family. The Palestinians v. Israelis thing goes back to the old testament. I say let them settle it on their own. Too bad we committed our hand by oufitting one side with the best military equipment availible in the world.
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:39:16 pm)

Queenie:
All of this and back again, another girl, another name, stay alive but stay the same, it's a stupid game, a stupid game...
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:39:36 pm)

bela:
Yeah, and they don't even respect us.
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:40:18 pm)

Queenie:
Someone on another message board says that Bush painted himself into a corner with his use of very black and white "good vs. evil" bit, and as a major world leader has basically given carte blanche to anyone who feels justified in taking out anyone else they deem "evil".
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:41:03 pm)

Queenie:
When in fact things are much more complicated than that.
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:41:28 pm)

Decoy:
What do you say when a father and mother think of their suicide bomber child with pride, as a hero. In the west, we would be like, what the fuck is so important that these young men are suicide bombing for. THat's how desperately oppressed they are. When suicide bombing to kill the enemy is the only means of putting up a fight. Christ almighty where did it all go wrong. Those people seem to prefer a fight to the death. They are either a bunch of pathetic lower form of human, simple animals, or just that desperate.
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:42:57 pm)

Heruka:
I disagree, they're pretty easy to understand, they're following their scripture. not me, but those who actually understand Islam really seem to have a good grip on things. Mind you, I wouldn't expect to be hearing about how the Koran teaches that ever non-Muslim must die on CNN, but Islam is a PC religion.
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:44:58 pm)

Queenie:
I think it's desperation. The creepy thing is that it just comes down to geography -- where and when a person is born. Had you, Decoy, been born in another time and place, you could just as easily be one of those cats strapped up with explosives.
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:45:01 pm)

Decoy:
The ironic thing is that they all claim God's will is behind them. Its the last stand, the final motivation, the ultimate con - fight to the death for our cause, if you die, you will live forever with God in heaven, so its a good trade, If its such a good thing why don't they all just kill themselves and go to heaven and we'll see them in a few years?
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:46:00 pm)

Queenie:
Because you're not a martyr unless you die for the cause.
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:46:40 pm)

Heruka:
actually, if their child doesn't kill any Isralis, then the child is deemed a failure.
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:46:52 pm)

Decoy:
I can't remember the comic's name but he had this routine about the Ethiopian civil war, it went something like, "Don't try to live in the fucking desert!!!!"
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:47:07 pm)

Decoy:
One side or the other is wrong, If you accept the monotheistic premise of both religions.
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:47:51 pm)

Heruka:
you really are looking at the martyr thing too closely.
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:47:55 pm)

Queenie:
Maybe everyone else should look at it more closely.
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:48:31 pm)

Decoy:
Then how do you generate that level of a zelot?
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:49:06 pm)

Decoy:
I would do anything for my kids, but why would I kill myself on PUPOSE, thus ending my ability to help them?
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:49:47 pm)

Decoy:
PURPOSE
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:49:56 pm)

Decoy:
So, H, if we are looking at too closely; are you suggesting that they are just animals, a lower form of human?
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:51:06 pm)

Myk Murphy:
The british left is anti-israeli like europe, but less knee-jerk on the topic. Israel is a democracy surrounded by over twenty dictators... The so-called underdog pals are funded by the saudis and others. The peace plan implies that all parties wish for a two-state solution, but the arabs only want the overthrow of israel. The israelis know this, as do most euro-leftists. The usa knows this, too, but we respond to pressure, too.
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:51:22 pm)

Decoy:
looking at IT too closely ... ahhh
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:51:27 pm)

Queenie:
How do you generate that level of zealot? Intense poverty, hard-core religious practices as a lifestyle, and the promise of a beautiful, sexy hearafter if martyred... throw on top of that $20,000 for your poor, starving mother, and you've got yourself a suicide bomber!
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:52:24 pm)

Heruka:
I'm suggesting that if there was any other way of creating the same havoc and killing Israelis, they do it. But there isn't. Now you're just making things up.
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:52:37 pm)

Decoy:
Myk is right. The PLO is really an obstacle in all this, but there is no one else to have dealings with without them. And then all this happens against the will of Arafat, the only tangible Palestinian authority.
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:53:47 pm)

Queenie:
Mob mentality rules. Just watch Jerry Springer for a while and you'll understand how the collective IQ of a group can drop.
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:54:56 pm)

Decoy:
What if a group of American citizens claiming to represent the true will of the USA, declared war on another sovereign state? What would the "right thing to do" be? I mean for our country's internationally recognized goverment?
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:55:34 pm)

Decoy:
Don't those shows make want to go postal on the whole studio?
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:56:55 pm)

Myk Murphy:
Remember that palestinian tv has been generating hatred and radicalism for years, now. Again, saudi money. Not hard to make an unemployed kid want to bomb. The parents often receive $10000 for the kid's sacrifice. It's war by proxy, thanks to iraq and the saudis.
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:56:58 pm)

Queenie:
People spend too much time doing unenlightening things. I hate to oversimplify, but dammit, there it is.
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:59:17 pm)

Decoy:
It really hurts to clean house. Maybe we have two choices? Become independent of the mid-east energy supply or "CommonwealthUSA."
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 12:59:32 pm)

Queenie:
I remember watching Joseph Campbell on PBS saying, "Ask yourself if what you are doing is enlightening you in any way. If the answer is no, ask yourself why you're wasting your time doing it". OK, that's a GROSS paraphrase. I don't agree 100%, though. Sometimes I just need brain candy.
(Tue Apr 9, 2002 - 1:01:16 pm)